am i the only one who's confused?

[Plopsy]

after the mtg today i felt better. but the more i thought about it, the more confused i got. one minute we're told we'll get everything we've got now. the next it's not exactly the same and we'll have individual mtgs to thrash out the differences. any serious concerns were either laughed at or shot down (any suggestion that we might not be 100% over the moon were hilarious to the speakers and the reasonable request to explain the economic reason behind the transfer was answered that it was none of our business).

i gathered that we'd get bonuses, reviews as if we had not transferred this year, but it was in the lap of the new employer thereafter. the handouts didn't answer the questions we'd asked about whether we'd be on "no less favourable terms than currently", merely stating (e.g.) that we'd still get reviews. and current redundancy entitlements will only be matched for 15 months.

if the previous research about custom and practice published on this forum is right (and i don't see how we can be sure about that without a specialist employment lawyer to advise us one way or the other - an idea that the panel of speakers apparently found ridiculous or offensive), then bonuses, salary expectations, existing benefits, redundancy entitlements, etc. should continue indefinitely as if we had not transferred. i'm worried that by signing any new contract, i will be signing away these custom and practice entitlements.

i really don't know whether to just sign a new contract and be glad to get it over with, or spend time and money on a lawyer that might not change anything except annoy the new employer further. is anyone else inclined to seek legal advice?

[The Beatles]

I know how you feel plopsy, i also feel a bit worried about the fact that i do not necessarily know what my legal entitlement is. Obviously i don't want to offend my new boss, but i also don't want to make a decision without knowing fully what all my options are.

[daniel craig]

Have just spoken to a TUPE specialist lawyer. He advised to conduct no more legal discussion on a public forum in case our employer comes across it. I will therefore communicate via email with people whose addresses I know and hope that the word will spread from there. If you haven't heard the news and are interested, please ask around at work to try to get up to date. I'm sorry that I don't know any superior way to do this at the moment. I'm unsure if it's possible to have a private forum somehow that would protect us, but this is the best I can do for now.

The only thing to add here at this stage is that for those who do want to investigate their options further (and, of course, as with everything else, it's entirely up to each of us and I wouldn't want to persuade people one way or the other as this is a big decision for us all), then lawyer said agree to nothing in our individual meetings, just say that you want to think about it.

[Admin]

I phoned in to the meeting and felt I was listening to well oiled spiel. I didn't understand why management were offended that we would want to seek legal advice as they both had plenty of legal advice of their own. I wonder when the minutes of the meeting will be available? I certainly will not be agreeing to anything in my one to one meeting as I intend to go home and think about it all to make sure nothing has been missed.

Huge thanks to all contributors to this forum, I have found your thoughts and ideas very helpful.

[tintin]

I phoned in to the meeting and felt I was listening to well oiled spiel. I didn't understand why management were offended that we would want to seek legal advice as they both had plenty of legal advice of their own. I wonder when the minutes of the meeting will be available? I certainly will not be agreeing to anything in my one to one meeting as I intend to go home and think about it all to make sure nothing has been missed.

Huge thanks to all contributors to this forum, I have found your thoughts and ideas very helpful.

>>>>>
I would like to second that. Contributors have been essential to my understanding of the situation we are currently in, particularly because I have no individual representation.

Given that our Contract of Employment states that our terms and conditions are both in the written contract AND the Employee Handbook, a sizeable pdf available through the intranet, surely we aren't qualified to check that our terms aren't being adversely changed? Therefore some independent legal counsel seems inevitable. I would hope that this can be performed on a group basis rather than each of us meeting the substantial costs involved.

If it now appears that this forum is insecure, please let me know in the office how to otherwise continue discussions.

[daniel craig]

If it now appears that this forum is insecure, please let me know in the office how to otherwise continue discussions.

Hi tintin: please check your private messages.

[mshinoda]

Could you also send me a private message as I'd really like to be kept in the loop regarding legal advice.

[daniel craig]

Could you also send me a private message as I'd really like to be kept in the loop regarding legal advice.

Hi mshinoda

All you have to do is send me a private message with your email address and we can include you in the loop. This applies to everyone else too. Send private messages with contact details either to me or Whitney.

It's only the legal stuff that we need to cease public discussion about. We can still communicate about the transfer generally. The lawyer put it to me like this: imagine that your employer's lawyer has advised that you are entitled to certain things (say an automatic pay rise on transfer - don't get excited, this is just an example), but told the employer to tell us that we're not entitled to this to see if they can get away with it. The lawyer said that this is a lawyer's job: not to be honest or ethical but to get the best possible deal for their client. Now imagine that we came across copies of documentation about this left behind at the photocopier. Our approach to the whole transfer would be totally different with that sort of knowledge in hand. The same works the other way around. We just need to make sure that our employer/s don't know what our lawyer is telling us to avoid giving them the upper hand (which they've obviously got at the moment).

[Plopsy]

wow: no wonder the new company said most of their staff were picked up through transfers. having heard about the dreadful deals we're being given, no-one would actually WANT to work for them. this is the modern press-gang if you ask me. wouldn't be surprised if i woke up at sea. and as for the bi-annual bonuses of a bottle of plonk, a box of quality street and an orange bin-bag: how insulting!